John Carpenter - Modern Horror's Renaissance Man
Gallery's Will Romano talks to master of suspense John Carpenter about his latest major film, why he won't do another HALLOWEEN sequel, horror's new Renaissance, vampire sex, and what really scares the hell out of him.
John Carpenter is, for all intents and purposes, the horror Renaissance man. He's written screenplays, scored music, produced, directed, and even acted.
Carpenter, known as the "Master of Horror", has produced some of the finest thrillers in cinema history. He was honored with an Academy Award almost 30 years ago for a short film he made called THE RESURRECTION OF BRONCO BILLY when he was still a student at the University of Southern California Film School. It wasn't long before he was making critically acclaimed and popular full-length movies such as ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13 ('76); the terror classic HALLOWEEN; the haunting EYES OF LAURA MARS ('78) starring Faye Dunaway; a 1979 TV movie titled ELVIS, starring Kurt Russell; ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK ('81) and its sequel ESCAPE FROM L.A. ('96), both starring Russell; the ghostly thriller THE FOG ('80); THE THING (an '82 remake of the 1951 monster classic starring James Arness); THEY LIVE (co-starring wrestler Roddy Piper); the sci-fi drama STARMAN ('84) with Jeff Bridges and Karen Allen; CHRISTINE, based on the Stephen King novel; the action-thriller cult film BIG TROUBLE IN LITTLE CHINA ('86); MEMOIRS OF AN INVISIBLE MAN ('92) with Chevy Chase; and 1993's IN THE MOUTH OF MADNESS, where fact meets fiction, sanity meets insanity, and star Sam Neill allegedly goes bonkers.
Thinking through this roster of masterpieces, there was one vision that I couldn't get out of my head: The white mask of the maniacal monster-like killer Michael Myers from HALLOWEEN.
The first time I saw that movie, I was scared half out of my skin. It wasn't because the scenes were gory, or that the film showed the ugliest, scariest creatures ever to appear on screen. It was the amalgam of Carpenter's eerie music, his lighting and camera techniques, and his dark, suspenseful script that terrified me.
HALLOWEEN, which is celebrating its 20th anniversary this year, thoroughly redefined a genre. Carpenter's efforts served as a springboard for the "slasher" movies which pervaded the late '70s and '80s. As the movie book NIGHTWALKERS: GOTHIC HORROR MOVIES, THE MODERN ERA (Taylor Publishing) points out: "...HALLOWEEN led inevitably to FRIDAY THE 13TH parts I through XVII [sic] (to call the FRIDAY THE 13TH series moronic is to insult morons everywhere), and reams of other drivel, all of it unaccountably dubbed 'horror'."
However, these knock-offs couldn't come close to the artistic and money-making records which were set by Carpenter. According to some sources, HALLOWEEN is the most profitable "independent" film ever made. Of course it's difficult to define an "independent" film, but a check with the reference library of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences showed that HALLOWEEN grossed close to $50 million at U.S. box offices - an amazing amount for a movie which was made for a mere $300,000. It remains the highest-grossing film per dollar spent on production.
Today we are in the midst of another horror Renaissance. Hollywood is again sinking its teeth into full-blown, high-production fright flicks. According to Variety, Miramax/Dimension Films gave Kevin Williamson (the scriptwriter of Wes Craven's SCREAM) an eight-figure television and film deal, while Universal signed a multi-million dollar contract to convert the comic book SUPERNATURAL LAW into film.
Vampires are especially popular these days. It seems we just can't finish-off the quasi-dead. Numerous movies have been wrapped; while others in production include BLADE with Wesley Snipes; VAMPYRYZM; DRACULA (yet another by this title); VAMPIRATES; THE WISDOM OF THE CROCODILES (being promoted with the catch phrase "Love is the color of blood"); a movie being filmed outside the U.S. called DIE HARD DRACULA; and even the TV spin-off of the popular film BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER.
Amid all this, Carpenter will release his latest effort, VAMPIRES, which he (as usual) directed, produced, wrote, and scored. It stars James Woods, Daniel Baldwin, Sheryl Lee, and Thomas Ian Griffith, and involves a group of mercenary vampire hunters led by Jack Crow (Woods), sent from the Vatican to destroy the fanged demons.
Based on the John Steakley novel VAMPIRE$, the film gives Carpenter the opportunity to add the necessary erotic undertones which are essential in any good vampire flick, plus take it in a different direction.
"It was kind of a chance to demystify the Gothic nature of vampires," says Carpenter. "You know, crosses just don't work. Mirrors don't work. Garlic doesn't work. They don't sleep in coffins. They don't turn into bats. Basically it brings them a little more into modern times."
VAMPIRES was shot entirely in New Mexico. That's not the first place which comes to mind when thinking of the traditionally European bloodsuckers.
"That's right," says Carpenter. "It's in the middle of the prarie, and they're hiding someplace. It has that kind of feel."
At press time, Carpenter was working to get the movie distributed, and had taken a break from his editing schedule for a phone interview. After seeing him narrate his tongue-in-cheek Showtime movie BODY BAGS, I thought a raving lunatic would be on the other end of the line. He was quite the opposite. Professional, down-to-earth, modest, succinct and lucid, the filmmaker known as the "Master of Horror" didn't beat around the bush. There was, however, a moment when his breathing was quite audible. It was so loud, in fact, that I thought HALLOWEEN's masked boogie man was stalking me, panting heavily through his white mask...
GALLERY: Let's jump right in. What's your favorite horror movie of all time?
CARPENTER: It depends how you want to differentiate between horror and science fiction. I'm a really big fan of the HORROR OF DRACULA with Christopher Lee.
What about sci-fi?
I love the QUARTERMASS EXPERIMENT, [Editor's note: also called THE CREEPING UNKNOWN], the early Hammer science fiction, and probably all the classic sci-fi movies of the '50s. From the great B-movies, like the Roger Corman stuff, right up to WAR OF THE WORLDS, FORBIDDEN PLANET, INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS.
If you had a choice, who would you work with? I'm referring to classic horror actors like Lugosi, Karloff, Chaney - who would you choose?
I'd probably work with Boris Karloff. Undoubtedly. I'm drawn more to Frankenstein and that myth rather than Dracula.
Why's that?
I find that science fiction is a little more intriguing to me than supernatural horror.
Out of all your films, which one are you most proud of?
Well, that's a real hard one to answer because you do your best on every movie that you make, and you can't pick out which ones you like. Often the ones that don't get treated very well by audience or critics are the ones you have the fondness for. Maybe they didn't work, but you did something in them. I'm happy with a great many of my films. I really can't pick them out. I know a lot of them which didn't work, and I'm not very happy with.
Can you name a few?
Oh, you can find them.
I really liked your 1987 movie PRINCE OF DARKNESS, but audiences didn't react to it's strange plot.
It was too intellectual for the audience. It involved matter and anti-matter, a mirror image from another universe. Everyone thought the anti-matter was the Devil. Everybody thinks it's the Devil... odd.
Let's talk about VAMPIRES. Why do a movie about the "undead" at this time?
For years, I've thought about vampire movies and never wanted to make one. I just didn't think that there was a new way to do them. They're just such generic creatures, and they've been done so many times. You've seen 'em done over and over and over again. They seem to be born out of the romance novels from the 1800s. They're kind of aristocratic characters. I think they represented a lot in those days: repressed sexuality, the aristocracy feeding on the lower class, and it goes on and on. Nowadays the myth is so familiar to everyone. How are you gonna do it any different? Well, along comes a novel like VAMPIRE$ by John Steakley, which was given to me. It had a unique premise.
VAMPIRES has a great cast, particularly James Woods. He seems like a pretty intense guy when he's acting. How is he in real life?
Jimmy's an accomplished actor; he's been around a long time. He became a friend and we had a real good time working together. He takes his work seriously, and he brings his all to the character. It's a lot of fun to have someone who cares about what he's doing, as opposed to having to beg somebody to come out of the trailer, "Could you please say these lines?" It's just the opposite with him. He really has ideas and has a direction for how he wants the character to be. It's terrific.
What do you make of Anne Rice?
Anne Rice is a very popular author, though I'm not a big fan of her stuff. I don't think vampires are necessarily gay or immortal in the way she was portraying them. Still, I think the vampire myth resonates. It always seems to be playing, and there will always be a new vampire movie coming out no matter what. There are several coming out like BLADE with Wesley Snipes, which is a high-tech vamp movie. So we never seem to get rid of them.
You've worked with some pretty big names. Did you ever have a problem with a star's ego getting in the way?
It's hard to explain it to you. Some actors, and some of the highest-paid actors, don't seem to want to work. They get on the set and they don't wanna get out of their trailers and they don't want to say their lines. They don't even seem to like the scene they're doing. They don't like the show. They don't like being there. They have other things to do. It's very weird to me. I think that our worship of celebrity has grown so vast now that we just turn them into monsters. It's outrageous. You have to beg them to do what's in the script.
Seems like these people forget they are actors.
Yeah. On the contrary, I have worked with a lot of great actors who have really done the job. The majority of the people I have worked with have been just wonderful. I just had a couple of bad, odd experiences.
Anyone in particular?
In terms of bad or good?
Bad.
Well, I'll tell you the good.
Okay.
You know people like Kurt Russell, Sam Neill, and Jeff Bridges are wonderful to work with. They're fun and bring focus to the material. I would never have a problem with those guys.
Kurt Russell was in a lot of your movies. Why do you like to work with him?
He's a model actor. He should be studied by other actors just to see how to do the job. He was studio-trained. He was trained back in the old days by Disney where you had to say every line exactly right. He had to hit his marks. He didn't fool around. He brings a whole different kind of work ethic to the floor when you're doing a picture.
Do you have plans to work together in the future?
Well, we're always looking for something together. We'll see what happens in our careers and what we want to do. It really comes down to the script and the material. Always the material.
It's fascinating to know that you're able to direct, score, produce, and write the scripts for so many movies.
It's fun to do all these various things. I'm not a master at any of them, so I can kinda fail at all of 'em [laughs]. But I went to film school where we learned to do everything. We had to operate the cameras, do the sound, the editing. We did a little bit of acting, a little bit of scenic design.
With the 20th anniversary of the movie HALLOWEEN coming up, there has been a rumor floating around that you were working on another one. Is there any truth to that?
Wow, you sounded like one of my actors, Steve Buscemi, doing a character just now! Well, anyway, back to your question. What happened was last December, Jamie Lee Curtis got together with myself, Debra HIll, and Bob Weinstein of Dimension Films. They wanted to do another HALLOWEEN for the 20th anniversary. Jamie had the idea that she would take on "The Shape" [Michael Myers]; she would kick the shit out of him. Really finally kick his ass. They seemed to like that, but wanted to do it for five cents. So I didn't see where it would include me, really. Kevin Williamson, the kid who did SCREAM, I believe, did a treatment. I read it, but they stil wanted to do it for low-budget. So I said, you know, "No thank you."
So what's happening with it now?
What I heard is that they're gonna get Jamie, but they're going to get someone else to produce and direct it. It'll be out hopefully by the anniversary.
After the original HALLOWEEN, your involvement in the series dwindled. Why did you leave the HALLOWEEN scene?
Well, see, we made one and they wanted a sequel, and there really isn't anymore story to that. There's only one story. There's only one thing you can do and that is to repeat it, over and over and over again. You know, you've got this one guy who can't be killed and he keeps coming back. I couldn't think of any way to make that more interesting than I did the first time. We did a sequel, and it was successful, and they wanted a number three. So instead of visiting the same scene, my hope was that everytime we did a HALLOWEEN we would have a new story, with new characters that didn't involve Michael Myers. It would have some horror element, and we would get a young director to direct them. Have it be a scary series. But then the audience went to see it and said, "Where's 'The Shape'? Where's my familiar story?" So, when that happened I said, "If that's what you want - you don't want me." I'm not involved in that anymore. I don't know what to tell you. It's like watching a TV show. I don't want to watch a TV show. You can watch TV and see the same thing over and over. We failed in number three. Someone else took over and recycled the same ideas.
Speaking of recycling, what do you think of FRIDAY THE 13TH and some of the Wes Craven NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET movies? Some people consider them John Carpenter rip-offs.
I don't know what to make of them. I'm a pal of Wes Craven. We've been friends for years. I think his movie SCREAM was a real success for him and he made a real ass-kicking teenage slasher movie. I'm really happy for him on that. He's had a big hit. He wrote A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET. He did that for a million bucks, a million eight, or something like that. He didn't own it and he kinda got screwed. So he deserves success because he's put in his dues. I don't know about the genre, the teenage horror, stalker movies. You know it was around when I was a kid, when I was a teenager, and even as I became an adult. I guess it's back again.
I'd like to do a word association with you. Just say the first thing that comes to mind.
Okay.
Steve Buscemi.
Friend. You're gonna hear a lot of "friend."
Adrienne Barbeau.
First wife. We were married 10 years.
Why did you split up?
I don't think any failed relationship is any one thing. People change. Needs change. Careers change. It's really complicated.
Jeff Bridges.
Great actor.
James Woods, in a sentence or less.
Wow, that's hard. In a sentence? Well, Jimmy Woods is like a shot of adrenaline.
Who do you admire as far as contemporary movie directors?
Well, that's a good question. I enjoy Quentin Tarantino's work. I like David Cronenberg a lot.
What was a horrifying incident that happened to you?
I've had a lot of fearful experiences. We all fear the same things. That's what makes horror resonate so deeply in all cultures. We fear for our lives, love, disfigurement. Every dread you have is shared by everyone on the planet. So that makes horor universal. Somebody in a rice paddy in Vietnam is going to be afraid of getting killed just like me. When you see a big 'ol monster with a hatchet coming after you, everybody has the same response: "Oh. Jesus, let me out of here." So in that sense, horror is real basic to human nature.
What makes you do horror films?
I got typecast. I've always enjoyed suspense and horror and science fiction. I got into the business to make westerns. But I have a career. I've got to be John Carpenter. I can't knock that.
Horror wasn't your first love?
Well, I love all movies, let me put it that way. Horror films are fun, they are essentially suspense films. Some of them work, some don't. They are not really a formula; it depends on your story. When you're trying to do something more realistic, a horror film based in reality is easier to do than one based in fantasy. If you're telling a ghost story - that's tougher. Because audiences are skeptical of ghosts anyway. It's just a way of telling stories. You get to examine the classic ideas of evil, which I have always been fascinated by since I was a kid. What is evil? Why is it around? Why do we keep doing it? That kind of stuff.
Do people like to be scared?
I think they do. They like the experience, if they can do it safely. They like being thrilled, they like crime, love stories. Audiences love emotion, that's why they go to the movies, to be stimulated emotionally. They see love scenes and sex scenes and they're interested. And when they're frightened they get excited. It's the basic quality of cinema.
John, what scares you?
Well, it can go back to what I said earlier. We're all scared of the same things. What scares me scares you. When I was learning to fly a helicopter back in the early '80s, the instructorr said, "okay, we're going to shut off the engine and do an emergency landing." That scared me. I was scared for my life. I try to use reason to conquer my fears. We all have a mechanism to deal with fear. I'm just like you.
